How to fix sliding door frame that is not secure?

[terrytoons]

Hi there Guys - I am renovating my 1980s laundry and the double glass and alumenium sliding door frame has movement as the sliding door opens and closes. By grabbing the end frame where the door normally latches, movement is evident. As a consequence, the plaster sourounding the frame is badly damaged. I feel I need to fix that frame so it is without movement before tackling the plaster issues otherwise the new plaster will go the same way. Any ideas on how the frame was originally fixed to the brickwork would be helpful as well as ideas on how to remedy? Greatly appreciate any advice. 

[MitchellMc]

Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community @terrytoons. It's fabulous to have you join us, and many thanks for your question about securing a door.

You'll need to drill through the frame and into the brickwork behind it to add additional fixings. Start by identifying the original fixing points and marking areas with noticeable movement, especially near the latch. Remove any damaged plaster to expose the brickwork, then clean the area. Using a power drill with a metal bit, drill pilot holes through the frame at the identified points. Switch to a masonry bit to drill into the brickwork, ensuring the holes are deep enough for the fixings. Insert wall plugs into the holes, then use appropriate length screws to secure the frame tightly to the brickwork. 

Ensure you install your fixings in locations where the head of the screw will not interrupt the door's function.

Test the frame for stability by opening and closing the door; add more fixings if necessary. Once the frame is secure, repair the damaged plaster.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Mitchell
 

[terrytoons]

Thanks Mitchell - that was certainly very helpfull and puts me on the right track. Just wondering about the drilling through the door frame as there is only an extremely thin opportunity of brick behind the edge of the door frame for a drill and anchor to sit in at the very edge of the brick.

The total width of the wall from outside edge of facebrick to outside of the inner plasterwork is 260mm

Each of the two bricks on flat is 2 x 110mm. This leaves a 40mm gap. Can I assume this is an actual void space gap?

The frame is 75mm so there is 17.5mm of metal each side that has brickwork supporting.

With the bricks being cavity bricks, this is doubtful territiry to be trying to get a wall plug to bed.

I am keen to try but some 'tries' might be failures in hitting a sweet spot of solid brick. Could look messy with holes in the frame.

Any further thoughts would be appreciated before I try?

Also, would you suggest a cup head screw into a red plug so everything is not too bulky and obvious?

[JacobZ]

Hi @terrytoons,

It's hard to say whether there is a void behind the aluminium or not, but it is certainly possible.

As you've said, 17.5mm is not a lot of room for a plug. My concern is that even if you hit the brick, there is a high probability that the brick will blow out while drilling into it.

I'd be hesitant to just start drilling and hoping for the best. It is likely prudent to do some further investigation before committing to a plan.

Are there any visible fixings at all? If you can find any, they will indicate that there is something behind it. 

You've mentioned that there is movement in the aluminium frame. Is there enough that you can slightly pull it away from the wall to see if there is a cavity as you suspect? Or maybe you can remove some plasterboard to check?  

The red plugs you've mentioned should be fine, but if you do have only 17.5mm to drill into, you might want to consider using Ramset 5 x 25mm White Wall Plugs. The difference in diameter is only 1mm but when you're working with such fine margins, every little bit counts. If you did have to use these smaller plugs, I would suggest using one every 300mm or so to ensure there is good holding power.

In this application, I would suggest button head screws of a suitable length and diameter for whatever plugs you choose. They have a low-profile head that will sit very low to the aluminium and should not affect the seal of the door when closed.

Let me know what you think and if there's anything else I can assist with.

Jacob

[terrytoons]

Thanks Jacob - taking your advice and proceeding with caution and there appears to be no visible fixings from the frame to the brickwork. On investigating, I think that the bricklayers when installing the door or window frames, use a thing called a Galvanised Window Lug to fix the frame to the brickwork. In this case, with the sliding door crashing into the frame over 40 plus years, the galvanised lugs have most likely been slightly mis shapen and lost their rigity to allow movement resulting in the plaster cracking.

I wonder if thats a fair assumption? Any brickies or builders confirm the fixing method?

If so, the only way is what you and Mitchell advise with drilling. Take your point in using a slim anchor in the hope of not damaging the brick.

I can see that the inside of the frame channel is proud of the brick by around 15mm. How will that affect the function of a wall plug travelling from the frame, through a gap of 15mm and then into the brick? Will the plug still act as it should?

[JacobZ]

Hi @terrytoons,

Since you can't see any clear fixings through the aluminium channel, I'd say you're correct that they've used brick lugs on the back of the aluminium channel. 

If this is the case, either the lug is slightly misshapen as you've said or the grout it's installed in has cracked over time allowing some movement in the frame.

This does however mean, that if the channel was installed with brick lugs, there can't be a void behind the channel so the wall plugs should be good to use.

You won't have any issues with the wall plugs. As long as they are tapped deep enough so that the expansion happens inside the brick, and the screw is solidly pulling on the aluminium, the connection will be good.

Allow me to tag some of our knowledgeable members to see if they have any thoughts, @CSParnell, @Dave-1, @Jewelleryrescue.

Let me know if you have any further questions I can assist with.

Jacob

[Dave-1]

Afternoon @terrytoons 

I need to redo my sliding door one day... One day I keep putting off

Thinking about what has been suggested and what you have found I am wondering two things.

1- The plaster that is cracked, if you remove it you may be able to see the inside of the cavity and potentially attach some right angled brackets from the door frame to the brickwork with screws. Then plaster back the missing piece.

2- Instead of going into the single brick wall, secure the top of the door frame into the beam above? Id also suggest to check the bottom is secure as well, especially if it wobbles a little.

Definently an interesting problem for starting in here with I would like to offer a warm welcome to the Bunnings community pages :), there are a few questions along the lines of doors and fixing them (securing) in here  

Dave

[terrytoons]

Thanks for all the positive suggestions and I'd like to report that the job is done after taking on the combined knowledge. Thought I'd post a picture to finish it off for the post and you can see how I fixed several angle brackets at intervals from bottom to top with a masonary anchor into the brickwork and a big fat rivet into the alumenium frame which is hidden behind the frame. Plaster will cover the part on the wall and touch up paint on the part attached to the frame. Solid as!Door frame now solid.

[EricL]

Hi @terrytoons 

Excellent repair work on the door frame, I'm sure that the brackets will hold the frame in place securely.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

[Dave-1]

Morning @terrytoons 

Nice work, would be a reliefe not to have a shaky door anymore!

Thank you for showing us your solution

Dave