How to mount security camera junction boxes to Hardiflex eaves on steel framing?

[goteDeath]

Hi

I'm hoping to get advice on how to mount security camera junction boxes to hardiflex eaves on steel framing for a recently built house. Below is from the plan for my house:

 Picture of the junction box:

The two things I'm unsure about are:

• Should I screw at least one fastener to the steel framing? If so, what fastener should I use?
• For the other mounting points (total of four, three if one is fastened to the steel framing), can I use the screws and anchors supplied with the junction boxes? I don't know how to tell what material they are suitable for... Below is a picture of a supplied screw and anchor.

Thanks!

[Jewelleryrescue]

Hi @goteDeath The screw and  screw plug in picture is suggesting  a masionary fitting. the screw alone is  timber and or metal bracket,

But  seriously only the camera needs physical support,  any junction boxes can sit  inside your roof space on top of the roof rafters with no electrical fowl all that matters is a good cable line to the nvr or dvr ,. Even power rules allow  cable to span rafters  with no fixing point of a certain spacing.

try not to make life hard for yourself,

[goteDeath]

Hi @Jewelleryrescue, thanks for your quick response.

If the supplied screws aren't suitable for hardiflex lining, can you please advise what I should use instead?

Also, is it advisable to fix at least one point to the steel framing, noting that a camera will be mounted to the junction box? Or is it fine to mount all points just to the hardiflex lining? If it's advisable to fix at least one point to the steel framing, what should I use for that?

Regarding the location of the junction box, they are designed for external use, not in the roof space. If I mount the camera directly to the eaves, there is no need for a junction box. The reasons I am installing with junction boxes are:

• The hole that needs to be drilled in my eaves for the ethernet cable is much smaller with a junction box because it only needs to fit an unterminated cable (the cabling installation and termination on the outside will be done by a registered cabler). Without a junction box, the hole needs to be significantly bigger to fit the ethernet connector from the camera as that will need to be pushed into the roof space after connecting to the ethernet cable.
• The junction boxes have multiple mounting holes at different diameters to suit a variety of cameras. So if I upgrade my cameras in the future, I won't need to make additional holes in my eaves if the diameter of the mounting holes of the new cameras are different to my current ones. Even if none of the existing mounting holes in the junction boxes fit the new cameras, I can drill new holes in the junction boxes instead of my eaves.
• If there are ever any issues with the cameras or if I upgrade my cameras, junction boxes make it easier to service or change cameras since the connection is in the junction box. Without a junction box, I may consider weather sealing the hole in my eaves for the ethernet cable and if I did this, I'd have to remove that to access the connection and redo it afterwards.
• Junction boxes help to minimise IR reflections as it lowers the height of the camera and therefore provides more clearance from the eaves.

[Jewelleryrescue]

Hi @goteDeath 

I hear you about junction boxes and the benifits  I agree.

That hardiflex is a pain to screw at the best of times. That screw should  drill into it but it is hard to start the screw into it especially up high at arms reach. What may help a lot  is pre drilling the holes with a drill bit smaller 1/2 diameter of the screw. You may break or blunt the  drill bit as that is what hardiflex does. If hardiflex  gets damaged you can always put a piece of  square ply and glue it  liquid nails on the inside of the hardiflex ( or you can glue it on to the outside and  paint it ) so  the screw can attach into the ply (5mm -to 19m as a guide) put hole in ply for cable too.  The ply will also support a bigger camera  size and weight in case one of them is a turret type

The hardiflex  should be strong enough to support a normal size  small camera.

i wouldnt screw to steel frame  unless it is unavoidable as it adds  possible rust points and if your roof gets hit  by lightning cameras would be more  prone to lightning.   But if you choose the steel to attach too that is fine just pre drill it to will help start screw Or there are metal screws at hardware with drill bits tips,

I also mounted a cameras at knee height hidden it a parcel shelf so Those fools in hoodies looking eyes down will give a good

 mug shot lolSneeky cam for hooded moronsI will silver film the perspex this was a test re IR glare which was zero as I turn IR off

I used Poe internet cable and I was to lazy to by  RJ45 crimp tool so i used premade Cat 6a cables so  that meant larger holes to fit  whole  RJ45 connectoers through 14mm dia

[MikeTNZ]

Hi @goteDeath, 

While @Jewelleryrescue has given you some really good advice, don't use the fittings they give with the cameras.

Hardiflex is one of the most useless things for screwing into.

As an Electrician, what I do is make up 4 bits of 50mm timber in a square, screwed together.

Slather these bits in Construction adhesive on the bit that will contact the upper side of the Hardiflex.

Drill your hole for the cable, go up in the roof, centre the timber bit you made before with a long rod or your hand if you're that skinny.

Go back outside and put a small hook onto the top of the timber, drive a screw into one side of the timber to hold it in place, slowly.

You do not want the timber in the roof to rotate.

From there, screw your patress to the Hardiflex, into the timber.

[goteDeath]

Thanks @Jewelleryrescue and @MikeTNZ.

The timber or plywood solutions sound very sturdy but I'd prefer to avoid crawling in my roof space if I can. I have sunken eaves so I think that will also make access very difficult for me.

Would toggle type anchors be sufficient? E.g.

• Ramset Plasterboard ToggleMate
• Ramset Universal Anchor - either 6 x 38mm or 8 x 50mm

If so, what is recommended?

I've already got some of both of the universal anchors that I've used for hollow brick walls so it would be great if I could use these but I'll purchase different anchors if something else like the ToggleMate is recommended.

My camera and junction box together weigh less than 1.1kg.

[EricL]

Hello @goteDeath

It's great that you've received excellent advice from @MikeTNZ and @Jewelleryrescue. Just to add to the suggestions already given, I recommend using the Ramset 3 / 16" x 75mm Plasterboard Spring Toggle Anchor - 10 Pack. This will work on Hardiflex and is rated to hold 10kg so it will easily hold your junction box and camera in place. The Ramset 8 x 50mm Universal Anchor - 4 Pack is designed to work under a variety of conditions. My only tip when using this product is to make sure that the screw is long enough to hold the junction box and still activate the anchor properly.

I don't recommend using the Ramset Plasterboard ToggleMate, because it is designed more for plasterboard mounting.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric

[Jewelleryrescue]

Hi @goteDeath 

Normally you just open a few tiles. But  you must not have tiles given  you   eave access delemma.

A quick reality check re your  camera mounts @MikeTNZ  is  right just about any screws you get with any kit are rubbish.  both @EricL  and Mike offered alternate screws.  I buy big 1000x boxes of wood screws gradually 20mm  30mm 40mm 50mm 70mm 90mm. So you never run out soon. Bulk buying is cheaper but not initially.

The reality is try line  up your camera mount with  the timber rafters supporting the hardiflex. (look for the line of  nails holding the hardiflex sheets up no roof access  required)  Only 1 screw hitting into the rafter solid wood is super strong enough to hold it up (  better than 3 screws into open hardiflex). Drill rafter at an angle at need to allow cable to exit.

What  @MikeTNZ  was  saying glue timber pads(smear glue on and let it skin for 10 mins for fast contact grab ie glue hangs against gravity and  not moving. a couple dabs on  roof adds to fast non moving contact adhesion) under the eves where they are totally accessable. Let glue dry (liquid nails overnight maybe  paint them white now too)  and then drill cable hole and mount/screw your junction boxes to the timber plate with short  wood screws so they dont try screwing into hardiflex ).

My cameras are only mounted 2 out of three  avaliable holes as I was able to align two  camera mount holes over the rafter the  third was just into hardiflex  so i didnt need it,  I then drilled past the rafter a 16mm hole as i used premade rj45 cables.

[MikeTNZ]

Hi@goteDeath, @Jewelleryrescue ,

The only other way you could do this if you didn't want to go inside your roof, is to remove a section of your roof from the outside,

provided it is long-run corrugated iron/steel, if it is a heavy tiled roof, that is a different kettle of fish.

You will need a ladder up on to the roof and remove a section of the roof above where you intend to install your camera.

You will need a tek-screw gun (impact driver) set in reverse, to loosen and remove the screws on the roofing sheet.

Slide that out, you will need a second person to assist with this, do your work and then slide the sheet back in and screw it back down.

You will need substantial leather gloves, roofing sheets are very sharp on the edges and the corners.

Do not ever attempt this sort of work in windy weather, it is like trying to control a large guillotine, that could end in a nasty end.

I've done this hundreds of times, where you can't get a cable down a wall.

While the roof is open, send the cable to where it needs to go with a length of electrical conduit.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Mike T.