How to build a new deck where current pavers are?

[ricm]

Hi there,

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated... We are building a new deck in an area with pavers in the back. We have an uneven area of pavers up against timber sleepers in the garden corner, my question is - what would you advise that we use to put under the decking to make the area level? If we put 'build tuff' as bases and attached the whole frame base to the side sleepers, would this work?  . 

[ricm]

Thanks @Nailbag ! Yes, I totally get that and i agree about the pool pavers height. Need to convince the boss on that one! 

I appreciate your thoughts, thanks so much.

[Dave-1]

Good morning @ricm 

Thats a nice area to work with and I do like the minister for home affairs want for a deck the same level as the covered part lol Tho how about a compromise? Maybe most of the area at that same height but a step down of 600mm to 800mm back from the dge of the pool to a lower height deck. That way no steep drop off tothe pool and it will look easier on the eyes? It would also stop the issue of the rotted palm bases dropping the soil level.

I really like the idea of reusing the pavers elsewhere, also like the idea of not having stuff left under a deck. Promotes free drainage and less issue if you ever want to work int hat area in the future.

I would leave the first two rows of pavers next to the pool and have the deck just a tiny bit higher then them but covering them. 

Dave

[Nailbag]

hahaha, good luck with that, we all have bosses to answer to @ricm 

[ricm]

Hi Dave, 

Im not sure if you will remember me from a few months back.. I was / am still planning my decking.

Just a project update. After going back and forth on whether its a pro job or can I do it, Ive finally decided to do it when quotes came in between 35-100k!!! Im going to be using the 'Good Times' pre-prepared frames as a base - just a few different questions if I may...

1. I will need to get the current area I am renovating prepared and remove pavers to accomodate the frames and decking - it can't go higher as it is already a raised area. What tools might you recommend to help me level the area, remove any groundbase or soil etc? Would a compactor help or some sort of ground digger? 

The base of the frame will be a paver (as suggested on the Good Times website) and a support foot. 

2. Do you have to use the decking panel or could you use regular timber or composite decking?

3. As you will see from the initial pictures there is a rounded shape pool. How do I deck up to that area? I mean how would affect the frame base?

Thank you in advance!  

[EricL]

Hello @ricm 

Let me tag @Dave-1 to make him aware of your questions. Before you go with the good time decking, I suggest having a look at these guides - How to build a low-level deck by @Adam_W and How to build a deck by @MitchellMc. This will give you a basic idea of how to build a deck frame. I also recommend having a look at this discussion - Low-level composite deck over concrete and soil by @oninpena. It's an excellent example of a single level low level deck built with angle brackets and pedestals.

For the decking panel itself, I suggest using composite decking as you are near a swimming pool. In regards to your framing question, this is the part where you can be creative and imagine how the frame would be built to compensate for the turns. I propose planning it on paper and see what you can come up with. You can then share your plan with the community and any questions you might have.

Here is a very good example of a low-level deck near a pool - Low-level deck for pool area by @Marty_McFly.

Here is a link for ideas and inspiration: Top 10 most popular deck projects

I also suggest having a look at the Bunnings video guide on deck building:

• how to plan out your deck 
   
• How to set out a deck
   
• How to install stumps
   
• How to install bearers
   
• How to install joists
   
• How to lay decking
   
• How to add a step to your deck.

If you have any other questions we can help with, please let us know.

Eric

[Dave-1]

Morning @ricm 

I do remember your question and just went through it again to refresh my memory.

This is the link to the Good Times Decking When I first googled it and got the tv series

I have not used that system before. I have used the Stirrups for when I built my deck. 

Pool deck stage 1 

Pool deck stage 2 

Are links to my deck that I built. I am never overly keen on prefabbed parts as putting them together can sometimes take the same amount of time as building it yourself.

@EricL has some good suggestions to follow and I seriously recommend to buy/grab an A4 notepad, pencil and eraser and go for a coffee at a quiet cafe. Sit there and sketch out what you have. Then hard point the corners of the deck, pool, other items so they will be the exact same on the underlying page. Once you have transfered the main points through, then you can start to figure out how to put the supports in for the decking you want. (Even the good times decking ) and work out distance wise where they join and how often you will need piers/screw feet.

If you scoll through my projects you will see plenty of times my sketches have been at the start of the projects. It really helps solidify what you need and the points that you start with and go up from there. 

As to low level deck, your supports wont be high, if you have concrete based stirrups you wont need to do any ground work other then dig a bunch of holes.

Have a look at @erics suggestions and my projects and let us know of anyquestions

Dave

[ricm]

Thanks so much Dave, it's great to see your previous work in pictures (Im much more a pictures guy than text). 

Just regarding this bit you mentioned: 

"As to low level deck, your supports wont be high, if you have concrete based stirrups you wont need to do any ground work other then dig a bunch of holes."

Evaluating the area with the pavers I just won't be able to have the frame (whether it's Good Times or made myself) sitting directly on the pavers because even with a smaller frame height, with the decking above that it will just make the height too much. If I make the area too high I will need to build screening (not sure the neighbours will be up for that) but even if it's ok it'll be more timber to buy, store and build. I think I need to remove all the pavers and go down a little in order the upper section to be ok height wise. And all that is just one section of the garden project !!  I'm in no hurry though so I can take it day by day slowly slowly. 

I did do a sketch, Im not much of an artist tho lol but its good to have something. 

my rough plan

[Dave-1]

Afternoon @ricm 

Nice sketch to start with   Now you need a profile one to help you with the heights you have in mind.

I would suggest you need to remove those pavers to start with.

Then work with the ground level to the level of the deck you want.

If its to short as you have been saying then the question comes up how do I get enough height for air circulation under the deck and for the deck to be level. Also what to do with the excess soil if you have to remove some. 

You currently have a couple of deck step/heights to contend with. I would take a baseline from the deck at your back door and then extend that line to the back fence.

It does seem that that second batch of steps with pavers will be high from the photos. But you need to factor in the step down to your pool. This is the stuff you can play with in your mind with sketches. You have a top down one, lets go side profile and also the profile looking towards the back of your house. This will show up the steps needed to get to the pool, the overall level you choose and if you can incorporate the "hill" that is towards the back fence. Even to the point of a higher raised garden bed you move the excess soil to (just an idea)

I am not sure what the measurements are refering to tho from rear of fence to edge of pool towards the house is 9m?

Some measurements that I couldnt figure sorry.

Width of rear of yard -

From the deck to the rear of the yard -

The height from water surface to the deck you would like and is safe -

Is the timber deck the same heigh as the pavers at the rear of your yard?

Just looking at the photos you have shown again, the new deck will stand out against the old deck by a fair amount I think. Are you considering redoing the deck under the awning?

Just finishing work, will try and have another squiz when I get home.

Dave

[Dave-1]

Evening @ricm

Ok, have done some sketches.

Stage one, dosnt have to match exactly what I have drawn, you could go further towards the fence if you wanted but id choose half way to make life manageable.  I would leave the stepdown area where you enter the pool as pavers. Would even switch them out for the more modern style ones you have at the back fence. They will handle water a lot better. The stage one decking would have a handrail so people are forced to take the step or you could have a step there as well. You could also pretty much deck up to 10cm from the palm tree itself. 

When I was sketching it out it really sank into me that you will need to remove the pavers and escavate the soil so as to allow you to build the substructure for the deck. Even if you dont go with stirrups, bearer, crossbeam and then deck. You could get away with missing the bearers if needed.

Stage 2 is when you would have to dig out that soil under the pavers I think. (guessing the height level atm) You need to factor in the skimmer box in this section (a lid area in the deck above the box would work) I drew in that handrail next to the paved area also. I have used "Breakboards" (only just found out about the name lol) to seperate the stages plus make it look nicer. 

I am trying to show an exploded view of stage 1 (A) and then stage 2 (B) the way the beams are laid out is so your existing floorboards continue through to the new ones in teh same plane.

With B the edge of the pool and how the beams could overhang their supports by a little. I would not overhang by more the 200mm for the beams from a stirrup/pier. When you get to this stage I would actually lay them on the ground to get an idea on how you will work around the edge of the pool. I would also go for straighter lines so it dosnt look choppy.

This sketch is to show how to build up from the stirrups/piers whatever is used. You calculate backwards for instance

22mm for the decking timber

90mm for the crossbeams

120mm for the support beams (this step you could skip and just go with lines of crossbeams.

So the depth you need for timber is 112mm plus 80mm air gap say. That gives 200mm space. If you remove a paver near your existing deck and meausure from the top of the deck down to the soil you will see if there will be needed to be removed or not.

When you remove the pavers I would consider drainage and which way water will run when it rains.

Just sketching it out this way shows up holes in my knowledge level. Such as height off the ground, how close to the pool edge do I want to go. Do I want overhang of the pool. Do I want to jump from deck into the pool.  Garden edge? All these come together as lego blocks One reason I dont like the pre-made panels is trying to get them all right compared to getting a row of stirrups in.... It comes down to your preference and what you feel most comfortable with. I do like your do it in stages That gives you a time frame and something that is achievable.

Dave

[EricL]

Hello @ricm 

I believe @Dave-1 has posted what was in my mind. One of the things I would suggest with your sketch is to define the direction of the timber pieces you are putting in your deck frame. Are you still keen to have a multi-level deck or are you willing to compromise and just turn it into a single level deck?  I definitely think that the pavers must come off in order for you to have a low-level deck. This will also save you from having to keep adjusting the deck due to the paver's uneven layout.

If you need further assistance, please let us know.

Eric